Freeze College Magazine

Love & Relationships

Threesome

By Jon Mizrahi, Bryan O'Gorman, and Jason Sherman

Summer 2009

Three real Harvard guys answer your questions about love, relationships, and everything in between...

Got a burning love life q? Consult the Threesome. Every month, these Harvard hotties will offer three different perspectives on your most wrenching guy drama qualms. Whether you choose to follow one of these guys' advice or take heed of all three's, it never hurts to have a Threesome.

Jon is a Pre-Med Economics concentrator who interned as an Athletic Trainer for the Jacksonville Jaguars and watches GossipGirl religiously.

Bryan is a vegan marimba-playing Physics and Math concentrator and former Freeze model (check out last spring's photo shoot!).

Jason is a Pre-Law Economics concentrator and all-star Ultimate Frisbee player who spent last semester in Singapore and was featured in The Crimson as one of the five hottest TF's (he TA's for Stat 100).

1. Every guy I meet—mostly at parties—seems to only be interested in the "girl of the night" type of thing. Don't get me wrong, this is fun for a little while, but now I just want something consistent (it doesn't have to be a relationship). So, where do I meet these guys? Should I be doing (or not doing) anything specifically? Thanks guys! --Quizzical in Quincy

Bryan: It's not that you're not meeting the right guys; it's that you're meeting them in the wrong environment. You may very well have drunkenly taken your soul mate to bed and left in the morning before you even knew his last name. It's nigh impossible to shout meaningful conversation above the blare of a pumping speaker, and those aren't his deepest secrets that you're grinding your ass into. Look at it this way—have you given any indication to these "guys of the night" that you want something more? People go to parties to party. If you want to have a relationship (in the general sense of the word) with someone, go somewhere that you can have a conversation. If you can do that, you can meet a guy not only with whom something "consistent" is possible, but you'll also have a medium for making it happen. I doubt I could give a list of places that you would look at and think, "why didn't I think of that?", because you probably have. You can meet guys in the dining hall, at campus events (music, sporting, academic), and even at off-campus events (pop goes the bubble). You just need to be outgoing and receptive, because chances are that a lot of the guys you talk to already feel the same way. You might even need to ask one out on a date (see question 2).

Jon: Well, Q^2, if you don't mind me calling you that, you are certainly on to something. After extensive surveying, I have found that "these guys" exclusively live on the third floor of Quincy—approximately halfway down the hall—and may or may not write a column for Freeze College Magazine. But since these nice young men seem to be taken, let's find a more promising strategy. First, you have to understand that the vast majority of guys don't go to parties to find something consistent. There is a hope, if not expectation, among most male partygoers to bring someone back home with them—typically just a "girl of the night." If you do really seek something beyond that, you should adjust your party expectations as well. Parties should be for having fun for that particular night. They do little in the way of lasting friendships, relationships or even hook-ups. Thus, you are far more likely to find something less temporary by utilizing other social resources. Class, for one, is a great opportunity to casually start conversation. It allows you to get to know someone in a context in which they are not just trying to be efficient in bringing you back home. There is de facto commitment involved in developing a relationship this way due to the sheer fact that there is a slower progression. If you are a physics concentrator, and the prospect of finding someone up to your standards in class seems a daunting task, switch to economics or government. Alternatively, if the class strategy isn't working out, look in your house or other clubs/organizations. The guys you are looking for are out there. You just have to be wise about where you intend to find them.

Jason: Dating exists here. Believe me. You just need to make yourself dateable. Meeting legitimate guys looking for a legitimate time at parties is possible. Instead of becoming the "girl of the night," become the girl they wished was the "girl of the night." Flirt, have a good time, pass a number. Now here is the real key that every guy who reads this will hate me for: don't hook up with him. Countless guys across the school have made pledges not to date girls who hook up with them at or after a party. Can you see what that would say about you? Tell him if and when he asks you to "go for a walk" or "come back and see his family pictures" that you're not that kind of girl. Tell him that you would love to go out for dinner or something. Then, establish a time and date. Here is the key. Now you have yourself a date and the guy will be left with both the confidence of having picked up a girl and a little mysterious intrigue, which can't hurt either.

2. How do guys really feel about girls making the first move? Should we always wait for guys to take the initiative or can/should we "help things along" a bit? This could be making a move in terms of either asking the guy out on a date, or making a move in the physical sense. --Active in Apley Court

Jason: Always make some move. Guys absolutely hate it when girls play too hard-to-get. As weird as this might sound, guys absolutely hate rejection. Playing hard-to-get can be effective though, and is different for different situations. Let's start with dating. Show interest in guys you want to date. Rarely will a guy ever ask a girl on a date when he is unsure of the answer. Go up and say hello, tell him you have seen him around, and start a conversation. Guys like it when they feel like they have the upper hand. I am going to throw out the "confidence" word again because that is really what it is all about. Suggest that you all should hang out sometime. At this point he should understand you are interested and so automatically he will feel comfortable with you and not be worried about rejection. The key is to lull him into a sense of confidence so that he will ask you out on a date without fear of rejection. Focus on being overly friendly without explicitly suggesting a formal date. Now sex. Playing hard-to-get with sex can be disastrous. You should, however, play slow-to-get. Remember ninth grade? Keep guys wanting more for as long as they can handle it. As long as you remain flirty, touchy, and sensual in simple things like making out, he will remain interested. However, if he pushes an action too soon, feel free to stop him. Tell him not yet. When the time is right though, you need to make the first move 'cause he may never try again. Remember the whole confidence thing? Tell him or show him what he is allowed to do. Give him back some confidence. Just remember guys will do anything. Do not ever, unless he's not into girls, worry about him saying "no" to something. Make the moves while still playing hard-to-get. A perfect combination.

Jon: Is this at the heart of every girl? If so, spread the word that "help" is wanted. I can answer this one most honestly by giving my personal opinion. While there are guys who probably do prefer to be in complete control and dictate every step of the way, I find that there is little that is more satisfying than a girl who is willing to take charge—to an extent. I like to think of myself as someone relatively unconstrained by traditional gender roles, but there is the inevitable struggle to balance these ideals with the difficulty of challenging established social conventions. It is important that you do what you are comfortable with and would like to do. I would find it pretty surprising if you were rejected or even shown the slightest bit of restraint. So, asking a guy on a date? Absolutely do it. Making a physical move? Do it if you really want it. But mind the fact that there will be a double standard placed upon you in retrospective judgment. You run the risk of being viewed in a potentially negative light. While I agree this is unfair and I would not pass such a judgment, I cannot guarantee you that every guy would say the same.

Bryan: To be honest, there are guys who think a girl should never ask a guy out on date because, well, they just shouldn't. It destroys the order of the universe or something. To these guys, "sexual liberation" means the acceptability of blowjobs. But there are also guys who are waiting for you to do just that because they don't have the confidence to do it themselves. These guys are also probably not that good in bed. Most guys are somewhere in between. They'll usually be the ones to ask girls out, but only because that's the way it usually is, and they wouldn't mind if a girl they're interested in beat them to it. Of course, there's the possibility that a guy hasn't asked a girl out because he's not interested. Has he had ample opportunity to do so, and is he the type of guy who isn't too shy to do it? If so, then that's the probably the case. But if not, go for it. Just don't expect him to foot the bill.

3. Do guys kiss and tell? Who are they telling? And how much do they spill? --Curious in Cabot

Jon: Yes. Except about girls in Cabot—or at least certain ones. Imagine one of those sprinklers that rotates as it shoots water as far as it can reach. It's kind of like that. They're telling their roommates, their teammates, their sections and their Congressmen. When no one listens, they grab a megaphone and announce it in front of the Science Center with City Step girls dancing to grab attention. Ok, perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. A hook-up is usually seen as fair game by a guy to openly discuss. Without an emotional tie and a subsequent guilty conscience, there is little to stop him from telling all—even about the handcuffs. His close friends will know, but he won't shy away from answering if anyone else asks. Committed relationships are very different. Guys turn much more inwardly and generally avoid sharing information that is personal. Moral: If you do something really embarrassing while hooking up with a guy, you’d better start dating him fast.

Bryan: There are guys who just kiss (men). There are guys who just tell (teenage boys). There are guys who do both (frat boys). And there are guys who do neither (Math 55). If a guy seduced you by bragging, chances are he's a braggart, with both girls and other guys. I've heard guys give explicit descriptions of their previous night with more detail than I'd care to hear. I've also known guys who say nothing unless asked, and even then usually leave it at something no more precise than a base number. Most guys are more like the latter, saying maybe what you did but nothing more. Most just say something if there's something exceptional to say. Did you scream "Barack Obama" while climaxing? He probably told his friends (exception: he's Barack Obama). Did you do it in missionary three months into dating him? He probably kept his mouth shut.

Jason: Yes, but don't girls kiss and tell too? Everyone tells their very best friends, but we need to explore the other people and ways that guys tell. Now you have to think about how you would react to a "kiss." If he was ugly or a mistake, you would tell no one, but those closest to you, whom you know would not judge. Same applies for guys. With one major exception, the very first question a girl typically asks about their girlfriend's hook-up is "How'd it happen," while a guy's first question is "Was she hot?" So it is very important for guys to maintain their masculinity by only talking about hooking up with attractive girls, while girls may just enjoy telling the story. Some, if not most, guys will not tell anyone if you are not attractive enough and it is more than likely that most hook-ups go entirely unheard. If you are quite the looker, no detail is spared with close friends—ranging from the position to the shape of your tongue. With other less close guy friends, such as final club buddies or teammates, they may only spill that it happened, who/how hot you are, and how far you got. Guys, again sadly, base a lot of their respect of other guys on an unspoken quality/quantity girl competition. It is something all guys have in common and can easily bond over, so next time you are with a guy think about what he would say about the experience.